Friends and comrades who have been down to Wall Street to look at and participate in the protests have told me that it’s been amazing: varied, non-sectarian, organized, flexible, spontaneous, bold, innovative, eloquent. Labor unions and striking pilots have endorsed and supported the protests. The crackdown began early and has escalated, with hundreds arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge today and shipped off to the Tombs for a night or two of political internment. Has the spirit of Tahrir traveled across the Atlantic? Are these isolated spot-fires from Madison, soon Boston and Chicago, going to turn into a bloom of social revolt?
It'd be about time. The “objective conditions” have not been so conducive to social insurrection in the United States for decades: corporate after-tax profits have sextupled, from $250 billion to nearly $1.5 trillion, since 1990; a large chunk of that, 1 trillion dollars since 2001, the result of dizzyingly high prices for petroleum at the pump, in effect a regressive tax the petroleum companies have been laying on American working-class consumers. Our health-care system is by far the worst in the industrialized world, 16 million small children live in poverty, while the top one percent brings back nearly 20 percent of national income. The class war is right out in the open, papered over insistently by an endless war on terror against shadowy and nebulous Islamist foes, and with beleaguered Democratic voters glancing right at Satan – or Rick Perry – who might, heaven forfend, destroy Social Security (As opposed to the melanin-rich mannequin in the White House).
What I am disappointed to see is that some people claiming to be leftist supporters of Palestinian rights – but who are neither leftists nor supporters of Palestinian rights – are complaining about “antisemitism” at Occupy Wall Street. To be clear, there are internet wackos and real wackos everywhere. As Alex Cockburn recently pointed out, “These days a dwindling number of leftists learn their political economy from Marx. Into the theoretical and strategic void has crept a diffuse, peripatetic conspiracist view of the world that tends to locate ruling class devilry not in the crises of capital accumulation, or the falling rate of profit, or inter-imperial competition, but in locale (the Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg, Ditchley, Davos) or supposedly ‘rogue’ agencies,” to which one should add, Protocol-esque non-sense. That there is a fringe of this at Occupy Wall Street does not surprise me. That it’s more vocal online, in whose dark shadows provocateurs grow wildly, surprises me even less.
But then I see one Daniel Sieradski, whose primary purpose in life seems to be commoditizing his dissent, suggesting that a sign which reads, “End financial aid to Israel, end occupation of Gaza,” is going to scare off the “7 million” [sic] Jewish New Yorkers who support murdering Palestinian children. According to this line of thinking, if the Occupy Wall Street Protests are going to attract a broader base – like the mostly middle class or working class Arab communities in Bay Ridge, the Iraqi cab drivers, the Yemeni and Egyptian deli operators and the Moroccan kebab-stand proprietors of Manhattan and Brooklyn, the mostly poor or working Afghan, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi communities on Coney Island Avenue and Queens, all of whom hate the occupation, let alone the broader white, black, and Puerto Rican working classes whose tax dollars go, in yearly three billion dollar chunks, to Israeli Aircraft Industries in the holy land or straight to Raytheon and Boeing in America, in the process chopping up some Lebanese and Palestinian children into pieces – they have to drop issues like the occupation and military aid to Israel.
Explain to me how this works. An anti-capitalist anti-corporate movement for social justice should not also be antisemitic. That goes without saying. But apparently it should also, Sieradski seems to be demanding, accommodate Jews, not simply as Jews, on the basis of mutual respect for others, but as people whose identity is intimately bound up with occupying Gaza and ensuring that people shower in water filled with fecal residue. On its own terms this is ugly. Israeli war crimes are carried out with American tax dollars. Whose sensibilities are we offending by suggesting that a non-sectarian movement include those suffering in a different but related way from the same system? “Those other Jews”? Or Sieradski’s?
But it is worse. The upshot of suggesting that an anti-capitalist anti-corporate movement blot out mention of the Palestine case for fear of offending American Jewry is that the American elite will stuff more and more of the agenda of American imperialism into the sack of “support for Israel.” Want to devastate Iraqi society? It’s for Israel. Want to ensure a several billion dollar yearly subsidy for the American military-industrial complex? It’s to “defend Israel.” Want to wage a massive endless decades-long war against exotic, menacing, terrorism-prone scimitar-wielding Asiatics, to the enormous benefit of the militarized industries which compose the spinal column of American accumulation? It’s for Mother Israel. Want to ship off weapons to apartheid South Africa, evading congressional resolutions? Have Israel do it. Thus imperialism, shrouded in the blue-and-white flag, steals into the American left. Sieradski, following in a long line of apologists for Israeli mayhem, thinks that to defend the anti-sectarian nature of leftist mobilization necessitates making one exemption: Palestinians.
But it is the reverse: a protest that starts with sectarianism will founder on it. The quibbling about signs being "anti-Israel" has nothing to do with fighting the class war and nothing to do with fighting imperialism. It's about a problem within the American Jewish community. Some section of it feels the libidinal need to embrace a place where it has no intention of living or moving, which was built on stolen land, and which is keeping millions of people encaged for the crime of being born wrong. Is accommodating that mindset an agenda that the most exciting mobilization in almost a decade should even entertain?
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Love your writing Max. Keep up the good work. It’s indeed impossible to divorce social justice movements from economics, and focusing on Jews, Israeli national pride, or Islam detracts from the real goal of the capitalist machine.
You never fail to point out the economics which so often go unnoticed.
all i’m going to say is that you have completely distorted what i have written to fit within your predefined narrative and bigotries. anyone who knows me from a hole in the wall knows that you couldn’t be more off the mark.
I didn’t distort what you said at all. I translated your euphemisms into English and laid out the concrete effects of the policies and strategies you advocated, namely, removing Israel from the a broader left mobilization. If you don’t like the consequences of what you said, maybe you shouldn’t have said it. And please don’t plead about “anyone who knows you.” I’m concerned with what you wrote, not you. As for “bigotry,” grow up.
this isn’t a broader left mobilization. this is a nonpartisan broad-based mobilization welcoming both the left and the right. look at all the ron paul signs jutting out from the crowd. they’re leftists?
you may not like to accept the reality that new york city is 15% jewish or that 65% of americans identify as pro-israel (gallup, feb 2011). but if this movement wants those people to take part in it, then they can’t allow it to be hijacked by concern trolls for palestine.
the fact that you have made me into a bloodthirsty jew who wants palestinians to bathe in sewage illustrates quite clearly what a bigot and what an asshole you are. i’ve stood in front of israeli bulldozers to defend palestinian homes, given thousands of dollars to causes that defend palestinian civil rights, and spent a decade challenging jewish communal policy towards palestinians. the fact that i retain the right to not bundle the palestinian liberation movement with the struggle for accountability on wall street and washington doesn’t reflect poorly on me, it reflects poorly on those who cannot stay focused long enough on a single issue to actually achieve impact towards its resolution.
so make me out to be your jewish boogeyman bathing in palestinian baby blood all you want. i know where i’ve been and what i’ve done for justice for palestinians. you’re just some dickhead blogger shooting his mouth off at anyone who doesn’t swallow his narrative whole.
God Dan you nitwit stop blabbering for a moment and pay attention to what is being said to you. You explicitly called for people to put away their “no aid to Israel, end the occupation of Gaza” signs. The occupation of Gaza entails showering in water filled with feces. Since we’re brandishing our CVs today, I can let you know this since I, too, showered in that water. Also stop with these bizarre strawmen (“you may not like to accept the reality that new york city is 15% jewish”). Of course you didn’t call for children to die or shower in filthy water, you just argued for a position that makes those things inevitable. I have no problem with Jews and don’t recall bringing up your background. So please stop trying to racialize this conversation through talk of “Jewish boogeyman” and a “bloodthirsty Jew” etc it’s embarrassing for one thing, it’s also non-sense, and finally it makes it hard to deal with real antisemites. If you’ve been following the news, there is one getting quite a lot of attention at the moment. Perhaps you should look into that when you’re not posting links from the ADL and the scoundrel Yale initiative on global whateverthefuck.
Over in reality, I have a problem with apologetics for military aid to Israel. You entered the public sphere and argued for removing that issue from the demands of Occupy Wall Street and even the discourse of Occupy Wall Street on the basis that it’s sectarian and alienates “Jews” (who again is the bigot?). I made a counter-argument not merely on the basis of principle, but on the basis of appealing to Arab and Muslim constituencies, as well as the fact of how historically arguments such as the one you’re making have been used to weaken the solidarity campaigns against Apartheid or US interference in Central America. The American and European lefts have chequered histories when it comes to Palestine and this has historically enervated them. That is real, this happened, that is history, and we should learn from that history and you in particular should learn from that history so as not to, you know, repeat it. You may indeed “retain the right to not bundle the palestinian liberation movement with the struggle for accountability on wall street and Washington,” but some of the rest of us, aware of how coalition politics works, will be trying to bundle things together especially because we think that Israeli regime is intimately tied into issues in “wall street and Washington.” Here, go read this book, you can learn about it: http://bnarchives.yorku.ca/8/
I mean seriously where did you think Wall Street gets all the cash it’s been investing since the 1970s to the detriment of human communities elsewhere? I’ll give you a hint since I was insufficiently clear earlier, apparently: petro-dollars, recycled and re-invested. Here go read this: http://books.google.com/books?id=I3vWgRS_itIC&…
So here are your choices. (1) the bandwidth is free so if you need that catharsis please carry on, although please chill out a little, or (2) you could also try to grow up and appreciate what is being said to you.
Do you really believe that the average New Yorker or American is thinking about postcolonial critiques of neoliberal economic theory? Or that their entry way into contemplating such issues is through support of a people they identify with dancing in the streets on 9/11? For a person so studied in people’s movements, you seem to be completely out of touch with actual people.
It’s not that I misunderstand or even disagree with any of what you’re saying. It’s not that I’m unfamiliar with or oppose your linkage between these issues. It’s that I know far too well that the vast majority of people don’t give a shit, are far more concerned with putting food on their own tables and keeping roofs over their own heads, and if you come at them with this noise, they’re just going to tune you out. Palestinian solidarity is not a popular subject with Americans. In fact, the same Gallup poll I cited previously showed U.S. support for Palestinians declining.
I’m not saying it’s just. I’m not saying I agree with the status quo. I’m saying, it is what it is. And it’s not going to help this demonstration scale so that we can actually achieve the change that we want. Again, my only point was that if you want is a mass movement, and you wan to attract the 85% of Jews and 65% of Americans more broadly that consider themselves pro-Israel, no matter how ignorantly, you’re not going to bring them to your demonstrations by waving Palestinian flags and attacking U.S. support for Israel.
Your response is that by making that point is that I’m sanctioning the butchering of Palestinian children and necessitating that Gazans bathe in sewage. That’s not incredibly insulting and demonizing, let alone hyperbolic? You also said that Occupy Wall Street, which presents itself as a broad-based, nonsectarian, nonpartisan movement, should not even entertain the accommodation of the vast majority of Jews who do not share the Palestinian solidarity movement’s view of Israel. Ergo, If you’re not comfortable with anti-Zionism, you’re not welcome! You’re saying, “Fuck 85% of Jews and what they think.” Then you’re claiming that you’re not a bigot!
Also, I’m so terribly sorry I responded to an outright antisemite who alleged that Jews conspired to create the Federal Reserve to manipulate currency markets for the gain of the Elders of Zion by linking to essays by Jewish civil rights organizations disproving those claims. My bad! Maybe if left-wing groups every did anything to actively oppose antisemitism — other than promoting the faulty proposition that ending Jewish self-determination would end antisemitism — I wouldn’t have to turn to the ADL as a source.
Daniel, your initial comment to me was, “um, not at all what i said jackass. and another anti-zionist extremist fucktard goes on block.” You should not be pontificating about demonization. And if you think those books I linked to are “postcolonial critiques of neoliberal economic theory,” you have no idea what you are talking about. They were about the furthest thing from it.
I don’t ask people to specifically give a shit about Palestine. What I ask is that those claiming to support Palestine not issue diktats saying that signs saying “no aid to Israel” should remain in reserve for other protests. Because what you are saying is that those for whom that is the main issue should stay home. That is the very specific and very stupid and dangerous point to which I responded: that the Palestinian case should be brushed off the table, not merely in terms of broad demands, but in terms of SIGNS. Why? Because 85 percent of American Jews support the occupation of Gaza and sending cluster bombs to Israel. I don’t doubt that you are not one of them. Nor do I care. If some Jews will not come to a social justice protest because such a sign, if they will absolutely refuse to do so, when the issue is their family’s bread – incidentally, I don’t for a second believe that is the case for 85 percent of Jews – but even were it to be so, that leaves a good 1 to 1.5 million who can come to our protests. We don’t need that high a percentage of the population for a revolution, FYI. So I am not worried.
As for the “Palestinian solidarity movement’s view of Israel,” I don’t know what the hell that is. What I do know is that calling for an end to the siege of Gaza and a military aid cutoff are tame demands compared to the mainstream of the movement, and it is those demands that we are discussing, not an abstract seminar-room disquisition on anti-Zionism. No one except for you brought that up. However, having brought that up, if I come to the protests with an International Jewish anti-Zionist Network button, I will take it off in your presence, lest someone get offended. Or, actually, not a chance.
And get over your identity issues. I don’t care about them. I didn’t say “Fuck 85 percent of Jews and what they think,” and if I did, I would not be a “bigot.” And please do not think you are shaming or making an idiot of me with that ridiculous pathetic accusation. I did not authorize some central council to speak in my name.
Oh, and one more thing: I never made the claim that opposition to U.S. support for Israel is antisemitic. My concerns about antisemitism were connected specifically to participants in the Occupy Wall Street IRC chatrooms and forums promoting conspiracy theories about “Jewish banking families” and usury.
“this isn’t a broader left mobilization. this is a nonpartisan broad-based mobilization welcoming both the left and the right. look at all the ron paul signs jutting out from the crowd. they’re leftists?”
No, they’re racists, and they’re the fringe it would actually be worthwhile to deal with, seeing as they advocate (though most of them don’t realise it) the deregulation of the monetary system, and the massive militarisation of the US border amongst other idiocies. Ron Paul’s most loyal fan base are Neo-Nazis. Why not talk about that rather than demanding that the oppression suffered by Palestinians at the hands of this same system be ignored in order to be able to appeal to other racists?
Those who don’t know you from a hole in the wall, but have followed your comments here, might, however, come away with an even less favourable impression of you than the one that is to be had from Max’ article. You have made his point many times over.
The terrible fact of the matter is that Zionism cannot subsist outside of the womb of Imperialism, apartheid, fascism, and settler colonialism to achieve its obvious goals. It bears no resemblance to the Judaism I know, and chooses to have a part in the capitalist enclave which can be described by the same ism’s I just mentioned.
The reason why the Occupy Wall Street movement comes into question is because it targets the very foundations of the capitalist junta which have woven Israel — or which Israel has chosen to be woven into since the beginning, it is a mutual relationship but Zionist modality is just one of the myriad of expressions. When the engine of Capitalism is dismantled it will have plenty of representation globally, if you want a more common terminology there will be both Jew and Gentile on both sides — those who support capitalism and its atrocities and those who will tear it down. Within the context of the community you will just have to ask yourself which side are you on, and is say with all sincerity get used to this paradigm because all other smoke screens will be blown away in the wake of this clash.
Excellent work. Every coalition in the US has been attacked on the need to be silenced on Palestine. Capitalism, colonialism and imperialism ARE A SINGLE ISSUE.
On the other hand, citing Cockburn on the loss of theoretical rigor of the left is like citing Madoff on the collapse of financial regulation.
well it was chosen for the aesthetics
LOL!
Evildoer has hit the nail on the head. In my experience, going back to the period before the 1991 Gulf War, there have been those who have insisted that the peace movement suppress any mention of Palestine for the purported greater good. Beyond this, there have been those who have insisted that anti-capitalist efforts engage in a similar censorship. I can, however, see why Zionists would see OWS as threatening, given the extent to which Israel has centrally placed itself within the global neoliberal economy, a subject that you have posted upon with insight. So, we can expect more efforts to characterize OWS as full of wacky, poorly dressed nutcases. Personally, I draw inspiration from a refrain in a song on one of my young son’s favorite cartoons, Wow, Wow, Wubbzy, a song subtlely designed to celebrate non-conformity: “We are kooky and so are you.”
[…] On Charges of “antisemitism” at Occupy Wall Street But then I see one Daniel Sieradski, whose primary purpose in life seems to be commoditizing his dissent, suggesting that a sign which reads, “End financial aid to Israel, end occupation of Gaza,” is going to scare off the “7 million” [sic] Jewish New Yorkers who support murdering Palestinian children. According to this line of thinking, if the Occupy Wall Street Protests are going to attract a broader base – like the mostly middle class or working class Arab communities in Bay Ridge, the Iraqi cab drivers, the Yemeni and Egyptian deli operators and the Moroccan kebab-stand proprietors of Manhattan and Brooklyn, the mostly poor or working Afghan, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi communities on Coney Island Avenue and Queens, all of whom hate the occupation, let alone the broader white, black, and Puerto Rican working classes whose tax dollars go, in yearly three billion dollar chunks, to Israeli Aircraft Industries in the holy land or straight to Raytheon and Boeing in America, in the process chopping up some Lebanese and Palestinian children into pieces – they have to drop issues like the occupation and military aid to Israel. Explain to me how this works. http://www.maxajl.com/on-charges-of-antisemitism-at-occupy-wall-street/ […]
[…] On Charges of “antisemitism” at Occupy Wall Street But then I see one Daniel Sieradski, whose primary purpose in life seems to be commoditizing his dissent, suggesting that a sign which reads, “End financial aid to Israel, end occupation of Gaza,” is going to scare off the “7 million” [sic] Jewish New Yorkers who support murdering Palestinian children. According to this line of thinking, if the Occupy Wall Street Protests are going to attract a broader base – like the mostly middle class or working class Arab communities in Bay Ridge, the Iraqi cab drivers, the Yemeni and Egyptian deli operators and the Moroccan kebab-stand proprietors of Manhattan and Brooklyn, the mostly poor or working Afghan, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi communities on Coney Island Avenue and Queens, all of whom hate the occupation, let alone the broader white, black, and Puerto Rican working classes whose tax dollars go, in yearly three billion dollar chunks, to Israeli Aircraft Industries in the holy land or straight to Raytheon and Boeing in America, in the process chopping up some Lebanese and Palestinian children into pieces – they have to drop issues like the occupation and military aid to Israel. Explain to me how this works. http://www.maxajl.com/on-charges-of-antisemitism-at-occupy-wall-street/ […]
[…] […]
Thanks Max! You rock! End oppression (in Guadeloupe, they call it pwofitasyon), occupy the whole nation! Like for Egypt, J14 and every movement that seeks liberation, all issues involving human rights must be on the table. This is our strength: united!
Just to complete: I’m sure protecting nature is also a must for revolutionaries.
Attacking Daniel to defend Palestine is just stupid. The ANSWER inspired nonsense around Palestine is one of the contributing factors in the failure of the US peace movement. I’m all in favor of addressing the issue; but far left, marginal messaging on Palestine (or Cuba, whatever) is a destructive distraction that harms OccupyWallStreet while doing nothing to meaningfully support struggles taking place in Palestine.
It’s like, hey folks, while were trying to arm wrestle Wall St. to the ground here, let’s divide the effort by throwing more causes into the pot. It’s a tough fight, but surely with more distractions we’ll do better!
Why don’t you respond to the substantive arguments I made in place of this gestural left-liberalism you’re throwing around.
I have no idea what “gestural left-liberalism’ is.
I do know that what you wrote here:
“But it is worse. The upshot of suggesting that an anti-capitalist anti-corporate movement blot out mention of the Palestine case for fear of offending American Jewry is that the American elite will stuff more and more of the agenda of American imperialism into the sack of “support for Israel.”
Is incorrect because
1. Dan never suggested blotting out mention of Palestine. He suggested that certain kinds of marginal language on Palestine is a diversion that would attract negative attention at a time when this protest movement needs all the support it can get. There is a difference between (for example) holding an educational session on Palestine on Zuccotti Park and making sure that an ‘end all aid to Israel’ sign shows up behind Michael Moore on national television.
2. The problem can’t be described simply as ‘offending US Jewry.’ It’s more about individual Jews, who are mostly among the 99%, seeing marginal messaging on Palestine as an early and defining preoccupation of this effort. The 99%, according to polls, aren’t very enthusiastic supporters of this issue.
3. You think the 99% are anti-capitalist? Really? I’d love to see evidence for that. Or perhaps you’d rather define this protest movement as ‘the 33% who have a favorable opinion of socialism or the 1% who are explicit anti-capitalists?
4. The American elite are not going to invent new items to place in the ‘this is for Israel’ basket. I mean… what’s left? That’s because the American elite don’t give a shit about Jews or Israel. Using the issue of Israel/Palestine inappropriately is precisely what the elite would like to do. They’d love to portray this movement as being anti-Israel, so as to attack and demean it, full cynicism included. Why make it easier for them?!
(1) Yes he did. He suggested getting it off of signs so as not to offend potential Zionist pro-Israel Jews. Although he did not make the distinctions I just made. There will always be those offended at the issue of the inclusion of Palestine. Long past time to listen to them. They’ve done enough damage.
(2) You’re right: I don’t think the problem is US Jewry, I recognize no such entity. Again, we are talking about ONE SIGN and Daniel asserting that such a sign has no place in this kind of mobilization. You come down on one side of the costs of that decision. I come down on the other. If you would like to go see the fruit of your strategy, I’d recommend Googling Atzmon and his bigot endorsers. They say the left has a Palestine problem. It does. It’s small. The left also has a right-nationalism problem. It’s bigger. The two are related.
(3) If the protest movement does not become at least in spirit anti-capitalist nothing good will come of it. What it is now does not concern me. I see it as the embryo of an anti-capitalist anti-systemic movement.
(4) They don’t have to invent new things. Iran will do. And you’re right, they don’t care about Jews qua Jews, or Israel as anything more than a route to their various goals, centered around social power. They will do anything to demonize this movement. The amazing groundwork since 2005 that has been laid in terms of changing the discourse around Israel will do a good job of blunting that demonization. As I told Dan, I’m not worried about what “they” say. I’m worried about what we do. And that means keeping Palestine, colonialism, Iraq, and capitalism on the table as an integral whole. If you want to try and keep it out, you’re welcome to do your best. And good luck. In two weeks you will need it.
“…the American elite don’t give a shit about Jews or Israel.” Depends on which elite you are talking about, or are you blind to the current makeup of the elite? It is a fools errand to try to bifurcate capitalism from ME policy, Israel is located within the policy vortex, but have at it. The condition of the Palestinians may be of ancillary concern to certain elites, but the Palestinians are by no means untouched. You seem to have a penchant for bizarre arguments and accusations (convoluted), in my opinion but I am sure those with exclusionary designs for Israel (taking it out of the capitalistic fold) sleep well at night knowing you are there …lol
I love the reasoning here. Drawing attention to the atrocities this system commits against people it’s particularly committed to harming is automatically “ultra left” and “marginal”, and “ultra-left” and “marginal” equals “bad”.
I’ve heard similar “arguments” used as a way to kill discussion on the specific ways in which capitalism exploits African Americans and Latinos. It’s “divisive”, we want to be “inclusive” (i.e., inclusive of white middle class people who don’t want to hear about how racism still exists), and all this shit. Ultimately, what people who say this shit want is an ineffectual, parochial movement that might marginally improve their lives, regardless of whether it makes a difference for those worse off than they.
this isn’t attacking daniel to defend palestine. this is attacking the practice of silencing multi-issue movements on the issue of palestine, and the ways in which palestine relates to the other issues folks are organizing around. what’s so exciting about the occupy movement, at least to me, is that it’s creating potentially revolutionary spaces where dialogue and learning can occur. what’s even more inspiring is that those spaces are being occupied by people with a range of political knowledge on a range of issues. the occupiers are exploring methods of idea-sharing and consensus-building that are based on the still-developing premise that all people and ideas are welcome. by saying all ideas are welcome except those related to palestine, or all peoples are welcome except those for whom israel’s injustices are a defining part of their organizing/activism, people like daniel seek to restrict the occupy movement in a way that most of its membership haven’t chosen to restrict it. this movement may have originally been about wall street, but it has sustained this energy because people who care about troy davis, immigration issues, police brutality, the environment, militarism, etc etc etc and also wall street/corporate corruption are sustaining it. the magic of occupy is that it invites all of us in to learn and discuss. censoring some of us, or asking that we yet again censor ourselves, is no way to build and sustain this movement.
(Yes, I’m attacking the transformation of a movement for ‘some things’ into ‘any thing’ by small bands of die hards who care more about their own little ‘issue X’ than about the headline issues. It’s not censorship, it’s strategy. Perhaps not YOUR favored strategy.
Monty Python said it better.…
JudithI do feel, Reg, that any anti-imperialist group like ours must
reflect such a divergence of interests within its power base.
Reg Agreed. Francis?
Francis Yeah. I think Judith’s point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the
movement never forgets that it is the inaliable right of every man…
StanOr woman.
Francis …or woman. To rid himself…
StanOr herself.
Francis …or herself.
RegAgreed.
Francis Thank you brother.
StanOr sister.
Francis …or sister. Where was I?
RegI think you’d finished.
Francis Oh, right.
RegFurthermore, it is the birthright of every man…
StanOr woman.
RegWhy don’t you shut up about women, Stan. You’re putting us off.
StanWomen have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.
Francis Why are you always on about women, Stan?
StanI want to be one.
RegWhat?
StanI want to be a woman… from now on I want you all to call me
Loretta.
RegWhat???
Loretta It’s my right as a man.
JudithWell why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Loretta I want to have babies.
RegYou want to have babies?
Loretta It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.
RegBut you can’t have babies.
Loretta Don’t you oppress me.
RegI’m not oppressing you, Stan. You haven’t got a womb. Where’s the
foetis going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
JudithHere. I’ve got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can’t actually have
babies, not having a womb, which is nobody’s fault… not even the
Roman’s, but that he can have the right to have babies.
Francis Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to
have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.
RegWhat’s the point?
Francis What?
RegWhat’s the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he
can’t have babies?
Francis It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
RegSymbolic of his struggle against reality.
Then push your strategy. By all means. See how it sells. Just note that this is the only issue that people are pushing excluding. And don’t muddle it with talk of antisemitism. And don’t forget that if the left refuses to take up these issues, the right will do so opportunistically.
you muddled it up with antisemitism. you took completely unrelated comments about neonazi infiltration into the left and connected it to my concerns about anti-israel messaging turning away jews from joining the movement. it was completely unfair and inappropriate which is why i called you a prick on twitter. in the meantime, i just gave ows all it needs to combat the charge of antisemitism now and forever: http://mobius1ski.tumblr.com/post/11220540526/ant.…
Daniel if you go and complain about antisemitism and in the same context and the same discussion, discuss “anti-Israel” messaging (incidentally I recognize the existence of no such thing) turning away Jews, you are doing the muddling, because the links between the two concerns will be made, whatever you subjectively “intended.” You made the remarks on the same messaging board, using the same handle, then tweeted the whole bundle to all your followers, and then Adam picked it up, which is when I noticed it. Politics is mostly about consequences. The consequences were predictable whether or not you predicted them.
Yeah, I haven’t heard any push to get rid of the odiously racist Pauloids or the “End the Fed” people who largely don’t realise that they’re calling for a full deregulaton of the monetary system, both of which are much more odious and detrimental to the mobilisation and its broader appeal than pointing out a relevant injustice caused by the same system to people who don’t happen to be present in New York.
So, Iran says mostly the same things about the US and Israel as you do, So fucking move there.
I am not sure I am allowed in as US citizen.
I think there is no better avenue than the occupy wall street protests to strongly educate people and disassociate anti-Zionism with antisemitism.